Greater Mysteries: Transformation, music, and the myth of Inanna with singer-composer Kelli Scarr

Special episode with guest singer-composer Kelli Scarr!

Scarr released her new album Greater Mysteries, a musical journey through the spiraling cycle of transformation, last month. The Sumerian myth of Inanna is one of the touchstones in this beautiful work, and I'm grateful to Kelli for taking the time to talk with me about the making of the album, her engagement with Inanna, and our collective transformation.

"What I hope that this album does is brings solace and inspiration, and holds people's hands through their ears to say it's worth the risk. It's worth the risk of dying in all of its forms. Because even when what is on the other side isn't what you thought it was going to be, it's so much better."-- Kelli Scarr

Thanks for listening and keep the mystery in your life alive...

Transcript

Hello and welcome to Myth Matters an exploration at the intersection of mythology, creativity and consciousness. I’m your host Dr. Catherine Svehla. Wherever you may be in this wide beautiful crazy world of ours, I’m glad that you decided to join me here today.

So we've been talking about the Sumerian myth of Inanna, which is a myth that I really love, and I'm really excited about this special episode that I have for you today, because I have a special guest, someone else who has also made a very deep dive into the myth and shares my love for Inanna, and additionally has created a really wonderful work of what I call mythopoesis, which is drawing on our mythological heritage, excavating the deep ideas and making something new and inspiring for our time. 

I am talking with Kelli Scarr who is an American singer, composer, producer and multi-instrumentalist based in New York's Hudson Valley. She's also the founder of Vera Jean Music, a pioneering record label dedicated to championing the talents of women artists over the age of 40. 

On June 13, Kelli unveiled Greater Mysteries, which is an immersive album and performance experience that draws on timeless, mythic journeys to the underworld like Inanna's. This project was born during an artist residency in Crete and recorded in Iceland. It serves as an invitation into the initiatory cycle of transformation, where endings become beginnings and something new is ready to emerge. Transcendent, piano and airy woodwinds intertwined with other worldly voices and the earthy pulse of the rhythm section to create a sonic journey steeped in myth and mystery. 

This is really magical music, my friends and Kelli is so accomplished in what she does, it's been a real pleasure of mine to collaborate with her on this project from pretty close to the beginning of it, I think, and so I'm honored to have her take some time to talk with me in a way that we can share with you about the genesis of the project and what it's meant to work with a myth like Inanna and Aphrodite and all of these goddess figures, to make music that can have an positive impact and hold space, be a container for all of us as we're going through whatever it is we're going through together, right? 

3:30 So Kelli, I guess maybe a good starting point is just to tell us a little bit about the genesis of the project and what motivated you to make music on the idea of transformation.

Kelli:  Yes, thank you for this question. And I, just before I start rattling off, want to say thank you for having me. And it's a total trip to be sitting opposite you on zoom right now being in this this this side of the equation, because, number one, I'm just like, such a huge fan of your podcast, and because we've been working together for a while now, and and, yeah, this is its own moment of transformation, as we're just finished this project and getting it out to the world. So, thank you. Happy to be talking to you, little nervous, little emotional. 

So, what motivated me to make this project about transformation? I would say first, the theme chose me, and it was something that I couldn't quite explain for a long time, and I feel like I'm just beginning to but we were coming out of COVID, or entering into a new stage of COVID in 2021 and I could see that COVID was this period of collective descent. A lot had ended, a lot had changed, and that there was a lot of grief around what was transpiring. 

And I could also see that I felt really reinvigorated, and I was shaken to a new level of aliveness that I hadn't felt maybe ever. And I became really curious about that experience. And I started, you know, then, of course, reflecting back on other moments like this in my micro life, where I'd experienced transformation on just the personal level, and noticing this recurring motif in the experience, which was similar, right? So, I just became pretty intrigued with that. 

And then simultaneously, I discovered Maureen Murdoch's Heroine's Journey, and started learning more about the cycle of transformation as it applies to our internal lives and the more emotional, spiritual, psychological experience, which doesn't get as much attention as the outward, you know, hero's journey version, where you're going on an adventure and you're slaying a dragon, and then you win, and it's over. And I liked that it wasn't like wrapped up with a bow, that it was like positioned in the symbol of the spiral. And I really related to that. 

And so then, you know, I knew I wanted to start working on a new project, and I think it was actually the visual of the heroine's journey from the book that first clicked with me, that like I wanted to make music that followed that image, that took people on this journey, and that I wanted to try my damnedest to express how my experience of transformation felt.

Catherine: I think you succeeded. You do map that I think, in a really artful way, through the titles of the songs, you give people some clues though it's very spacious, so there's a lot of room for interpretation, which I like. The music really does move you through all of these different phases in a way that is very powerful. 

7:40 How did you come across Inanna then and can you say anything about how that myth in particular informed the way that you think about this spiraling cycle of transformation?

Kelli:  Yeah, well, I think I first learned about Inanna, also in the heroine's journey, but it didn't really grab me. And honestly, I would kind of like skip over those parts and it just, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't relate to it yet. But I think it was about halfway into the writing process where I started going back into your back catalog and checking out your the multi part series you've done in prior years on Inanna. And it was when I was listening to those that it like really unlocked for me. 

And I think it helped me in the way that like Inanna both feels totally personal and totally universal. And that was what I was attempting to do with the music was like I needed to draw on my own concrete, kind of like personal, micro experiences but I wanted it to be relatable to anyone, and so I think Inanna provided this framework that I could use as like a compass to navigate these different stages in this more archetypal, universal, mysterious way,

Catherine: I'm glad to hear that listening to my podcast helped with that process. One of the things that I noticed about what you've done is how complete the cycle is. People tend to zero right in on the descent part of it, and I understand that. Not only is that the most kind of sensational "dragon slaying" you know, part of the story, but also is in our own lives, those times when we feel like we're going down tends to be when we look for guidance somewhere. 

So, I get it. And at the same time, I think what the myth communicates, and what is communicated in your music is that we're in a mythic space all the time. We're always moving towards something profound, or processing it, undergoing it. You know what I mean? So, there's a sense of being accompanied through whatever you're experiencing by these mythic images. 

Kelli: I think the story does a great job at capturing how we carry the like spirit of whatever stage, stages we've been through, and however many times, that gets carried with us to the next place. If that makes sense. I guess that's where, like the spiral,  the spiral image makes sense, you know. Because you're like, constantly revisiting the underworld or the call or the first days, but it's like, each time you go there again and again, it's like, oh, like, there. You develop this sense of familiarity that I think helps you release the tendency to kick and scream against where you actually are.

Anyways, maybe I'm getting us off track.

12:05 Catherine: No, I think that makes sense and I don't know if I've ever asked you this before in any of our many conversations, but do you have a favorite moment, or couple of moments in the myth or in the cycle?

Kelli: Well, one of my favorites, of course, is when she turns her ear to the ground. And that is mostly, I think, because I learned from you what that symbolizes and that the ear meant wisdom mind and especially that a female presenting character is setting off on a journey that has to do with what I interpret as like, connecting with her inner wisdom is like, so powerful. So that one.

There's still a lot of, like, the myth that feels like it's like waiting for me, because I want to say like another spot is when Dumuzi turns into a snake. But I'm saying that because I love snakes, and I love the symbolism of snakes, but I still. So, like, that feels like a breadcrumb. That's like calling for me to follow it. You know? In part it's my favorite because I still don't understand it.

Catherine: There's a lot to unpack. I think I've, I've been familiar with this myth for more than 20 years, and I still go into things, look at things, pick it up again and think, "oh my gosh, this is so incredible. And I've never noticed this before." How it overlaps and overlaps and overlaps on itself. 

13:55 Is there a place in the music that is that ear turning moment?

Kelli: For sure. It's the knowing is the call, and it's that line that was actually written by J. Wortham. They're listed as a co-writer on the track. It says "the knowing is the call to be made and unmade by a force greater than yourself."

Damn. I wish I wrote that. But I get to sing it, yeah.

(14:35" Knowing is the Call" excerpt)

17:40 Catherine: In that song in particular, one of the things that I really appreciate about it is the references to the body and it feels to me, my interpretation, is that there's a relationship suggested in that song between the natural cycles of the earth and our own physicality. You know that it's not it's not just completely in the abstract, this notion of "transformation."

KELLI: That's a whole other realm that, I guess, that we're talking about now, that is- that was- very present for me. And I think, you know, when I first started the project, I had just moved out of New York City after being there for 20 years into, you know, a small town, and into a place where nature is much more integrated into daily life and so and I was very quiet for, like, probably the first two years, and just doing a lot of watching, like I'm looking out the window now at the surrounding terrain, and just watching nature do Her thing.

And then, you know, simultaneously, I'm a 40 something year old woman, and I have a kid who's graduating high school in a few days, and I'm going through perimenopause, and I can't hike as hard as I used to be able to hike, and I have, like, wrinkly skin around my knees, and, you know, all this stuff is changing and nature is just a brilliant teacher, because there's no resistance. It's just doing its thing. It's life cycle, and it all belongs.

Catherine: Again, one of the things that I really like about what you've made and also how you're doing it. I want to be sure to mention to everyone, in case it doesn't come up again, Kelli has a whole vision for the performance of this music too, which is going to take place primarily in caves and cave like spaces, so really, entering into the body of the Earth as our ancestors have done, did do to avail our ourselves of all of What we can remember and still access about ritualized experiences being in the earth. 

So, if you can, in any way, be in the Hudson River Valley in September, those performances are going to take place in an old mine there, Widow Jane Mine. I've been there. It's a really amazing space, and all of this information will be with a transcript and on my website with more specific details and dates.

So, bringing the Earth into it again, one of the things that I really appreciate about Inanna and the goddess mythologies is that they are earth based. And it seems so trite, almost to go, oh yeah, we have four seasons. Oh yeah, you put a seed in the ground and it sprouts. And people made myths of that. And yet, what could be any more profound, you know, if we're in touch with ourselves as animals, you know, as material products of this great planet. Is there anything that is more profound or a better metaphor for these things that we tend to abstract, you know, into psychological concepts? And what you've created, the feeling of the music is so---it's so alive in the way that that that time of year and that part of the cycle is.

Kelli: I'm hoping that the music kind of like hypnotizes people into a state of remembering all of what you just said.

22:50 Catherine: It sounds like spending the time that you've spent with this notion, you know, the experience of transformation with the aid of where you are and the earth and experiences that you've had, and the myth that that has deepened your understanding of what the cycle is about. 

You had some pretty profound experiences in Crete that influenced the music and added to this sort of earthy, earth connection that we hear, right?

Kelli: Well, one thing the area where I was in Crete, which is it was at an artist residency called the Mud House. And it's in a small village in the southern coast, pretty straight south of Heraklion, the main airport. It's a very remote village overlooking the Libyan Sea, but you're kind of set, you know, back up in the mountain, and it's just so wild there, like it feels like it could be, you know, the Mycenaean age, like, and the village, quite literally, is like, mostly ruins, and then there's like a couple of like, renovated or rehabilitated buildings.

So, you know, thinking about it now, I guess I'm realizing that like, that place is like the perfect example of like blending, like this feeling of like ancient timelessness with today. You know, because I was there with a bunch of like artists who are making work, you know, in 2022, at the time. But we're still all incorporating, I think, our shared longing for this wildness that just it is there. It just it's just free. So, there's that. 

And then also, you know, something that I didn't realize until recently was that when I was like listening back to my recordings of the demos which I was calling seeds, which is funny you know, that we're talking about the whole earth and garden metaphor here. So, I was listening to these old seed recordings, and in the background of all of them is like the pulse of these Cretan cicadas, and it's just constant. It's almost as loud as my singing in the recordings. And it's just like and of course, now I understand what that was doing that was hypnotizing me into a state of being able to channel what came through into the music, and then it was also influencing how I wanted it to sound, and I was trying to replicate that state of earth, earthy pulse. Creating an earthy pulse in order to, like, hypnotize into this journey experience.

Catherine: I love that. I feel like I need to go and look into the life cycle of cicadas actually, or what their background is, because I know they factor in myths as oracles.

Kelli: They're symbols of transformation. I didn't realize until now of course, it's always like that, right, when you don't know.

Catherine: Right? Well, you know, again, I think there is so much more happening for us and around us. And I equate that awareness of that with the mythic space you know, opening yourself up to listen and respond to things beyond your ego, intention and plans for any given day. In my experience, once you do that, then you suddenly realize, Oh, my God, I'm in this ongoing miracle. I mean, there's so much happening all the time, and so many things happening that are addressing me specifically, you know?

And that's where, I mean, all that's where, all of that's, that's where art comes from, don't you think, from a, from a conversation that is actually larger than you know, what's in your own mind?

Kelli: Yes, good art.

27:50 Catherine: Well, so kind of shifting gears here, if one of the things that attracted you to the myth is its universality--and I think it's probably clear to people who are listening that you did this project as an invitation to all of us-- you know, how do you? I mean, what is that invitation? I mean, do you have a sense, an idea or theory about what's going on right now and what Greater Mysteries might be

Kelli: like in the context of these times? Well, I think back to the comment I made earlier about like noticing, first of all, like being conscious, that there is such thing as a cycle of transformation, and then, like viewing your experience through that lens. You kind of have to start there, and then back to what I was saying earlier, I guess, what I sense is happening right now is that we are still in the descent. And, I mean, some people would probably say we've been there for 1000s of years, and I'm sure, like the yugas have -can- back this up too, but at least in my little life, it feels like it's become very pronounced over the past five years, whatever, four years, five years.

And my sense is that there's this resistance to death and that there's a feeling of trapped, like it feels like we're collectively trapped in this old story, and we know that it's not serving us and but we're still scared to change, because we don't know what's on the other side. Like it could be worse when we let go of like our comforts and our identities and our ways of living and yada yada. So, I hope I'm answering your question. 

What I hope this album does is brings solace, and inspiration, and holds people's hands through their ears that like that it's worth the risk. It's worth the risk of dying in all of its forms. Because, like, even when what is on the other side isn't what you thought it was going to be, it's so much better.

Catherine: That's beautiful. I know that part of what has been really meaningful to me in working with you on this project is that trust in the cycle, trust in life. I feel that you communicate that in the music in a really interesting way. Spending as much time with this cycle, as I have, by virtue of working with you, has definitely helped me go to another level in terms of my own appreciation for the reliability of this process. 

I mean, that's not a very poetic way to put it, but as you say, it's really change is really scary when you're anticipating it, especially if it's very big, and knowing that everything's going to come back around, and that renewal or regeneration or something has been the point, has been the result... that for 1000s of years, we have been telling ourselves stories that reaffirm that is good medicine for our insecurities right now.

Kelli: And I think, something I've really grown to appreciate is even if, even if the other side isn't what you thought it's going to be, you're so much stronger and you're so much wiser for having gone into the underworld. And when you see that like that, we're collectively resisting that. Like, just imagine if there was just this movement of people that were like, "You know what? I'm gonna try this out." 

Like, what do you think our world would be like on the other side? Like, with all of that collective clarity and strength and wisdom and hopefully deeper appreciation for fucking being alive number one, and the earth--- we're so we're so disconnected from Earth, which makes it so easy to just constantly destroy her. Okay, I'm done ranting.

33:55 Catherine:  Kelli we've been talking a lot about Inanna, specifically, that myth. How important is it for people who listen to your music to really know the myth?

Kelli; I would say it's not required, but it would certainly enhance the experience, okay, because there's a lot of, as you mentioned, there's some references that that folks will hear and notice, and then I think also the sonic level, if you know the myth, you might appreciate the places we go and the sounds we use as we're traveling through each of the places in the story,

Catherine: I think that's true. So not necessary to have a firm grasp on it, the cycle is recognizable but the nuances are more available.

35:05 What I'm curious about more generally, I mean, you have, you've been making music and singing and for a long time. You are a singer. Do you think that the creative process is inherently transformative?

Kelli:  Absolutely. 

Catherine: How does that work? For you.

Kelli: Well, you know, each of my projects have been at various degrees of transformation, but I guess so I'll speak to this project in particular, I mean, like the making of it followed the cycle to a T, in terms of, like hearing the call to make a new work of art, and being all excited, and then starting to get into it, and then, luckily, crossing paths with you. You know, my mentor comes out of nowhere, Joseph Campbell, says, and then, and then I start to get nervous, and I start to maybe doubt, like, what it is that I've set out to do, and it feels a little too big, a little too ambitious, like, I'm in over my head, kind of thing, but then it's too late, like at that point, it's like, it's already being made. 

And in the music, you know, I talk about changes already taking place and in the same way that it happens in life, like in in making work, especially, I think, when you're like, trying to make something that's like in service in some way. There's just, like a you're just not in control.

As much as I love my spreadsheets and my schedules and like, doing things this way and organizing and all that stuff like, you know, I've tried. There were, like, so many dead ends along the way, so many obstacles. And thank God for you for, like, helping with my mindset, because that's a huge part of it. Yeah, there's just a lot of surrender involved and, and it's like, through that, I didn't--- this thing made itself.

It made itself, and that's so fucking cool, like, and again, here's the cycle. Like revealing its magic. It's like, you just have to show up. But like, the spirit, or whatever you want to call it, is like, is you're not in charge. And I think I would say, like, one way to describe how this making this record transformed me, is that it humbled me. 

Catherine: Take on big themes, meet the big energies, huh?

There's a really beautiful alchemy has taken place among all of between all of the people. In particular, I'm thinking about your fellow musicians and vocalists. Improvisation was a big part of what of your method. That seems like a real letting go of control that fits with what you're sharing about the process of making this.

39:05 Kelli: Yes, transformation is baked into, like, every nook and cranny of how this thing came to be. And yeah, the improvisation. So, like, from the get when I'm, you know, in Crete with the cicadas trying to write music. For one thing, I have no idea what I'm doing, like this stuff just kind of starts falling out, and it's improvised so and those are seeds, and the seeds are improvised. And then by the time I have enough seeds that feel like we have enough material that's worth exploring. I work with my producer, Dan. We find an incredible piano player, Sam Kassirer, and an incredible drummer, Jeff Lipstein, and we go to Iceland. And for 10 days, we improvise to the seeds, and we came back with, like, three and a half hours worth of material. 

And then Dan and I whittle those that three and a half hours down to, probably, I don't know, 20, 20-something contenders, and I knew roughly that I wanted to hit like 12 or 13 songs for many reasons. And then what we did was we brought in a bunch of accomplished improvisers, and we didn't show them the music in advance. We brought them into the studio, and we hit play and record at the same time. And so, they're reacting. It's the spiral is continuing. They're reacting to improvisations that we were creating in the moment in Iceland, adding their reaction to it. And then a new person comes, you know, we edit all of that material, and then a new person comes and improvises on top of that. And, I mean, I think the nature of how we made it,

Kelli: Oh, I'm just thinking about, like, I just love music as the metaphor for life, and like, looking for harmony in our communities and collaborating together to, like, make something greater than we could ever make by ourselves. You know, it's like, it shows up in music in such a beautiful way. And, and, yeah, and, like, there's, there was a lot of trust, and a lot of well, we were asking each person who, who came to the studio, like, to trust us and to surrender and to see what emerged. And, and I was, to a very small degree, like coaching them through the cycle and being like, Have you ever been in this place before, where, like you felt the call to do, to go somewhere or to change or do something different, and, oh, man, tell me about that underworld experience. Like, have you ever been divorced, or have you ever lost someone you loved, or whatever? 

And just to like, see everyone just rise to that occasion and create this symphony that no one person could have ever written by themselves or with their minds. It's just magic.

Catherine: I think that magic permeates the whole the whole album. And listening to you, I'm thinking about how one of the things that you and I have talked about is trying to communicate the inclusivity of this cycle throughout. You know, being a woman working with the goddess myth, it's so easy in our culture now for a project like Greater Mysteries to be, you know, kind of set aside like, "oh, you know, this is for women. This is like, you know, whatever."

And it's not. I mean, of course, in myth we've got our males and we've got Dumuzi, you know, and we'll will find out what's going to happen to Dumuzi, I haven't told that part yet, but transformation, I mean, that affects all of us, and I, I feel that through what we actually hear, the different voices and the different dimensions that adds, but also through the process as you just described it, the album is an expression of all, like a kaleidoscope of different people's responses and reactions to how they've lived this cycle. 

And then as you're performing it, and I think this was part of the feedback that you got during the preview shows that you did this spring, everyone who interacts with the music is adding something to it, to our understanding of what this process is.

I can't say enough about Greater Mysteries, my friends. I encourage you, I beyond encourage you to go to band camp--again, I'll post the link, I'll make it easy for you--- and at least taste the music. I'd be very surprised if you don't want to spend some time in this soundscape that Kelli and her collaborators have created.

45:23 Kelli, I have one last question for you. So, mythology, and specifically the myth of Inanna helped you kind of get a scaffolding for what could otherwise have been like, kind of an abstract big thing, big T transformation. Are you drawing on mythology in any other ways in your life? I'm curious about whether or not this project and your involvement with myth in this arena has kind of permeated the way that you're that you're living, or other things that you're doing.

Kelli: Well, you know, Greater Mysteries marks for me, the first time I've really consciously worked with mythology in my art. And, you know, I now feel like I'm like, at the threshold now that that project is done. And you know, we're starting to, like, look forward to these cave performances where you know again that are just going to be like another incredible opportunity to infuse all of the power of mythology into, like a modern day experience. I'm just feeling just- I feel like devoted to finding ways to work with mythology and to continue to include it in my art and I I also feel like I'm entering this new phase in my artistry and my personhood, where it's not separate anymore, so when you ask, like, am I working with mythology? I'm like, Well, yeah, I mean, it is my life now, you know, I and again it, it almost feels like it like chose me. 

And the things that are exciting to me right now are like, I'm doing deep dives on the Eleusinian mysteries and learning about these ancient initiation rites that took place in Greece over 1000s of years. And particularly excited by like, learning that the rites took place right around the Fall Equinox every year, and that during the course of, like the nine day, kind of like ritual procession of it, everyone agreed to pause war.

And I'm like, so, you know, I'm just like, "Huh? What would, is that possible?" You know, I love, I love, I love that like 1000s of people were coming together every year around the myth of Demeter and Persephone and reenacting this story and that it was so important to a culture that they were like, "Yeah, we're not going to fight for nine days like this is too important, and what we get out of this is too important." 

So, that's really kind of, you know, percolating for me right now, and then also something that I'm really interested in further exploring is like the transformation of these goddesses through time, and how Inanna becomes the story of Demeter and Persephone becomes, I think it was Venus first, and then Aphrodite, you know. But then, and then you were, I appreciate that you pointed this out, that like, she kind of starts getting fractalized, like segmented, and because she's like, kind of, she's the goddess who contains and represents every everything, the complexity. And it feels like as like, time went on and you could probably argue that this is related to the suppression of, you know, women and energies known as feminine, which I would love to get into at some point. 

Yeah, that like that the stories start to change, maybe in this like, insidious way, because there was an attempt to make people smaller and smaller, and I'm just interested in learning more about that, because, again, of the nature of the spiral, and seeing, thinking about, like, what's possible if we start, like reconnecting with the magnitude of a goddess like Inanna in today's culture, and what that could do for our time, right? 

Catherine: Yes, well, we have a similar interest there as you know and like you, I think that invoking the spiral really opens things up. One of the things that we've inherited, primarily in the from the monotheisms, the Judeo-Christian, the Abrahamic, you know, is, is this notion of linear time, that everything is evolving to an end. And it's interesting how deeply embedded in the philosophy and even the science of, you know, what we've called Western we'll just call the dominant culture, you know, even in Darwinian science, there's this undertone of, "oh, it's all driving to a point."

But if you look at how the earth works and plenty of other mythologies, you mentioned the Hindu yugas a while ago, it's a cycle. It's like and things spiraling, things keep repeating, but the spiral also allows for change, right? You were talking about that earlier, and I think it's really useful to experiment with looking at things as if what could unfold is going to take a spiraling form, rather than just unconsciously really, inhabiting the linear perspective on history, because that suggests that, not only that we might be able, in a way that is useful for our time to revisit old ideas and paradigms, but also, I think maybe somewhat relieves us from the idea that our culture has been making all of these mistakes, you know? 

And that's one thing that I've been thinking about lately. So many of the things that we are now wanting to change were really positive Innovations at the time that they were taking place. To imagine that we can like that we can circle back around now and go, "Oh, okay, keep reshaping, reshaping, reshaping, reshaping," reevaluating what is useful to us today, and setting moving beyond some of the concepts that held value, you know, 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, 400 years ago. It's a much, I think it's a more creative way to approach our history, especially from a mythological and by that, I mean, you know, the cultural, psychological, spiritual underpinnings of human existence. 

53:40 Well, is there anything else that you want people to know about Greater Mysteries? I mean, we can talk for hours and hours and hours we could.

Kelli: Well, I do want to highlight our work together, because, I mean, I think we haven't, like put it so plainly yet in this conversation. So, for folks who don't know, I came across Dr. Svehla when I was researching the goddess on various podcasts, and something that she said---Do you remember? Because I know I emailed it to you. I don't remember exactly what it was.

Catherine: I think it was something to the effect of how the female how is the container, the metaphor, the Goddess is the entrance. She is the cycle. She is the vehicle of transformation.

Kelli: Exactly. So, I heard Dr S spinning her wisdom on her own podcast, actually, and I Googled you and landed on your website and saw that you did creative mentorship, and I didn't even know that was a thing. And I was like, "Oh, this is interesting," and this was at the start of me working on this project. So, I reached out to you, and we've been working together for over three years now, meeting weekly, almost for almost weekly, pretty much weekly for three years. 

And I mean, our work together has also been transformative in and of itself, like, hands down, this record would be a million times less interesting if you weren't involved. So, I just want to, I want to, like, highlight that, because I hope I know I've said this to you before, but I feel like you're like a national treasure, and everyone needs to know about you and how incredible you are, and I'm just so grateful for your mentorship and your friendship and for pushing me to become a better artist and to incorporate these ideas and these stories into music in a way that I hope will really be helpful. So, I just want to raise that up.

Catherine: Thank you. So much can happen in the right conversation and I've learned so much from you and through working with you. I've made a couple comments to the effect that we're in something, you know, that I think that really profound creative work takes place in conversation, with things you know, with the cicada, with the trees that are growing in your backyard, and also between the two of us. And it's been a very fruitful exchange in terms of Greater Mysteries and certainly now in our friendship and future projects. 

57:25 Kelli: Part of my intention for sharing this, because part of me wants to just be selfish and keep you to myself, but part of my intention is that I get the sense that like mentorship is a critical component to where we're going and that it needs, we need to raise awareness of the necessity and the power of mentorship. And so, I would just encourage folks, if they're listening, you have that little, that little tingling sensation inside, like, "oh, I want a mentor." Like, just set the intention, and you'll be pleasantly surprised. The right person will come at the right time. And the intergenerational work, the mentoring work, it's, it feels really important right now.

Catherine: I think so too. Mentorship. Mentor. That word comes from-- it has a mythological history in and of itself. It comes from the Odyssey and Athena's relationship to Telemachus and Odysseus. It means to hold one in mind. And I think that kind of partnering, of stepping into someone else's process and aspirations in order to be a companion there, it's mutually enlarging.

Catherine: Thank you, Kelli. I really appreciate that you took the time to unpack some of the dimensions of Greater Mysteries here and talk a little bit about myth and creativity and also our work together.

Kelli: My pleasure.

I want to end this special episode of Myth Matters with a little bit more of Kelli's music. What follows is the final track, "Aphrodite." I'll share links to the album Greater Mysteries and to Kelli's work with the transcript of this episode. 

I do hope that you've enjoyed this conversation and thank you so much for being here with Kelli and me today. Until next time, keep the mystery in your life alive.

Kelli Scarr

Kelli Scarr is an American singer, composer, producer, and multi-instrumentalist based in New York's Hudson Valley. She is also the founder of Vera Jean Music, a pioneering record label dedicated to championing the talents of women artists over the age of 40.

On June 13, 2025, she unveiled Greater Mysteries, an immersive album and performance experience that draws on timeless mythic journeys to the underworld. Born during an artist residency in Crete and recorded in Iceland, it serves as an invitation into the initiatory cycle of transformation—where endings become beginnings, and something new is ready to emerge. The spirit of improvisation animates a richly textured soundscape, featuring an all-star ensemble including Producer D. James Goodwin on bass (Norah Jones, Goose, The National), Sam Kassirer on piano (Josh Ritter), and Jeff Lipstein on drums (Mercury Rev), plus the spark of innovative guests including vocalist Odeya Nini, woodwind artist Stuart Bogie, trombonist Dave Nelson, cellist Clarice Jensen, and guitarists Scott Metzger and Will Graefe. Transcendent piano and airy woodwinds intertwine with otherworldly voices and the earthy pulse of the rhythm section to create a sonic journey steeped in myth and mystery.

Raised in Northern California, Scarr’s musical journey began in church, eventually leading her to Berklee College of Music before settling in New York City. Over the years, she has woven her way through an eclectic range of projects, from fronting the bands Moonraker and Salt & Samovar to a significant collaboration writing, recording, and touring with Moby. Her artistry extends into film scoring, where her emotive and organic approach—favoring live musicians and improvisation—has set her apart. She earned an Emmy nomination for her score to the HBO documentary In A Dream (2008) and has composed music for dozens of films, TV shows, and commercials. Notable projects include the documentaries Advanced Style and Far Western, and the forthcoming After All (2025), for which she composed the score and contributed six original songs.

As a solo artist, Scarr has released three albums—Piece (2010), Dangling Teeth (2012), and No Rush (2021)—establishing herself as a singular voice in atmospheric, deeply emotive songwriting. Her forthcoming fourth album, Greater Mysteries, marks a new creative chapter, offering music as an initiatory experience. The project will unfold through intimate preview concerts in the Hudson Valley, culminating in immersive cave performances this fall.

Preview and purchase Greater Mysteries on bandcamp

Kelli Scarr's website-- you can join her email newsletter The Loop and receive info about upcoming cave performances and more

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